Margaret Meloni, PhD Death Dhamma

Episode 24 May 15, 2021 00:42:36
Margaret Meloni, PhD Death Dhamma
More Happiness Less Suffering
Margaret Meloni, PhD Death Dhamma
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Show Notes

Margaret Meloni is a businessperson, Buddhist practitioner, and an advocate for what she calls Death Dhamma. The practice of inviting the awareness of death into your life. She has seen how Buddhism, combined with a healthy respect for the Grim Reaper, has helped her create a life with more peace and less suffering.

More info on her website 

https://www.margaretmeloni.com/

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to the more happiness, less suffering podcast. I'm Casey Howe, senior meditation and Dharma teacher for insight. Speaker 1 00:00:07 And I'm Dr. Monisha Basa psychiatrist in our little podcasting studio in orange County, California. We bring wisdom from the couch and the cushion to your real life questions and struggles. So grab a cup of tea and join us. We're so glad you're here. Welcome back everybody to the more happiness, less suffering podcast as always, we are so grateful to have you here with us and for taking the time to join us. We are really excited today to have a guest with us. Um, Margaret Maloney, who is a Buddhist practitioner, and, um, writes a lot about how to be with death and dying. Um, and so we are really excited to learn from her wisdom and, uh, her her own process. Uh, so thank you Margaret for joining us. Um, I'm going to hand it over to Casey to formally introduce you. Okay. Thank you. I'll just jump in and say, and it's an honor to be here. Speaker 0 00:01:10 Wonderful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm really happy that you're here, especially speaking on such SIS and powerful topic and yeah, I've known Margaret for quite a few years now and, um, Margaret is also a PhD. Uh, she has her PhD in, is it Buddhist philosophy? Speaker 1 00:01:30 It is technically, I guess it is philosophy, but Buddhist studies. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:01:34 Buddhist studies. Yeah. Wonderful. And then she's had these really profound experiences, um, uh, experiencing just firsthand, uh, death, um, around her and has written a beautiful book called carpooling with death. And she has a podcast called the death DAMA podcast and she's currently working on her second book called sitting with death. So a wealth of, uh, wisdom on this subject. And so, yeah, we're excited to get into this with you and to extract some of that wisdom for ourselves, um, and our listeners. Speaker 1 00:02:17 Oh. And I always appreciate it when people are willing to have this kind of discussion. So thank you. Speaker 0 00:02:23 Yeah. Um, that's, that's just it, right. Like I, I think that when we're looking at a lot of the things that in my own experience, traditional Dharma has quote unquote, forced me to look at. Um, I remember, I remember going from the, I lived for a couple of years at Hindu based. Um, we treat centers and I've told this story about how everything was blessed. Like the whole, the whole, um, the juice of the day was like the bliss of meditation. And of course there were some we'll work there as well, um, dealing with, uh, emotions and this and that. But when I moved to the Buddhist centers, everything was kind of like the core teaching was around death and impermanence. It seemed to at least hit me very hard and that became central for me. And, um, and I remember how at first I had, I retracted, I have this aversion to it. And then as it kind of wore on me, I was like, well, this is so powerful. Like, this is incredible. And there was such a relief from suffering. So maybe we could start there with, um, how do you see this subject matter kind of working through people and maybe their initial aversion, but then the, the benefit of tackling the topics such as this, Speaker 2 00:03:55 You know, I had the initial aversion to, and not even when I was ready, I'll say it that way to think about death. But I definitely, you know, when I hit that first noble truth that there is suffering, I was like, no, I'm a happy person. There's no suffering. And I, and I misunderstood it to be, life is suffering instead of there is suffering. And, you know, there's a big difference. Like we're not suffering 24 seven. And, but so yeah, I definitely retreated from it, but like you, something brought me back. And ultimately I think if we follow that thought through and we follow impermanence and you know, we don't have to be Buddhist to follow the thought of impermanence because we can just look around and see change happens. Change is always happening. Change is inevitable. We know that doesn't even have to be any, that that's a statement that doesn't have to belong to any particular religion. Speaker 2 00:04:53 And so if we really stick with that, and I know we, don't always like to, then that means I'm changing, I've been permanent. And that means I'm going to age. If I'm fortunate and things are going to work differently. And then one day I will cease, you know, that everything that arises ceases. And I think that at first there's a level of getting that concept, but then hopefully one day we can all drop down into the level of, Oh, so death is here. I'm going to die. People around me are going to die. My pets will die. Things are, this is how it's going to be. And this is, and so there's a, there's a phrase. I use a lot that some of my friends, some of them laugh, some of them roll their eyes, which is, this is how it is. I use this phrase a lot. This is how it is. And to learn to accept this is how it is. There is going to be. Death is actually very freeing. So I think the way that it can work its way through and into our lives is if we can get past whatever fear and resistance we have around that, which I'm not saying it's easy by the way, but if we can get past that resistance into acceptance, then there's tremendous peace. Speaker 2 00:06:23 So I'm going to stop and see if that makes sense. Speaker 1 00:06:26 Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And I would imagine, you know, I, I, of course come to this topic more as a psychiatrist or, you know, mental health practitioners or working with my patients around their own losses, um, and, and their own fears around death. And I know what, what I see in my own work is that that process can unfold over very different time, spans, you know, for some, um, that that recognition and the peace that comes with that recognition can be a relatively short, um, time span. And other times there can be quite a long struggle in terms of actually kind of reconciling the truth of, of death. Um, and in permanence as something that we all that we all face. Speaker 2 00:07:15 Yes. And I'm never promising that it's going to be easy. So even when I say we can make peace with it, I'm not saying that when someone you love dies, it won't hurt. And one of my first questions that I had when I reached out to start interviewing Buddhist teachers around this topic is, did this, you know, did you have a hard time? Did it hurt? Did you feel pain? And people who have been meditating and practicing for 30, 40 years will still say, yes, it is still difficult because we are still human and we still love people and we still miss them. But when you understand that this is going to happen, you can let go of the resistance part. And the way that one of my, I like to say my 12 wise teachers, one of my 12 wise teachers who I spoke to said pain plus resistance equals suffering. So it's not that I'm saying, when you accept death, you're not going to feel pain. What I'm saying is when you feel resistance, you're going to lead yourself to suffering. You know, that resistance comes in the form of why did this have to happen? Why me, why him, why now? And sometimes we're never going to know why other than there is death. That's what we know. Speaker 3 00:08:48 Yeah. Maybe, maybe you could speak more more to that about, um, when we pay attention to death Speaker 0 00:08:57 Before it happens. You know, that's what I really, when I think about some of the Buddhist training and in contemplation of death and impermanence, uh, when you're not faced with it, obviously we're forced to, to face it. And when it, when it happens, but working with it before, there's such, maybe it's, uh, in a profound way, you know, if there's loss, that's very intimate, you know, of course it's heavier and whatnot. So maybe you could speak to, um, the benefits of this contemplation kind of leading towards this acceptance of, of its reality when we're contemplating it, as you so beautifully do in all these different formats before there's an actual, uh, lost to, to deal with. Speaker 2 00:09:51 Yeah. And that was one of the things that kind of started me down this path is I was in a place in my life where I was looking. And at that point, uh, my mother-in-law was in her nineties and my late husband at that point was that the same age that his father died. So there he is at the age that his father died, but he's got this mother in her nineties and then my parents are aging and I was looking around and I was like, this is Cummings. You know, like you don't need the like movie promo coming attractions to know that people are going to die. It's just a matter of who and when, and that, even though it could be me, you know, I also knew kind of statistically, as I'll say the younger one in the group, it probably wasn't going to be me, although it could be me. Speaker 2 00:10:38 But I learned that I didn't think I was afraid of my own death that may or may not really be true, but it was really this knowing that I was going to lose people I loved. And how was I going to deal with it that pushed me into it's time to get ready. And I guess there's this analogy I use. And I don't know why I use this analogy because it's the analogy of running a marathon. And the reason I don't know why I use it is I don't run. I don't want to run. I should have that. T-shirt that says, if you see me running, there's a bear at any rate, I find the analogy barely useful, because think of it, most of us let's say I decided to run and I decided to kind of for the long beach marathon, and then I do nothing except for getting myself out of bed and get dressed and put on the appropriate shoes the day of, Oh my goodness out, the medics are visiting me. Speaker 2 00:11:39 There's no doubt. There's no doubt. The medics are visiting me at 300 feet in probably. So it's like that. It's like that, which is we have this opportunity to train, to know that death will come. And when we do, maybe we can make it to mile 20 before we need, you know, the equivalent of the medic. And so I, I do still think that even for experienced runners, running a marathon is not easy. That's why not everyone does it, but they're trained and they're in better shape so we can train and better position ourselves so that when the time comes to deal with death and dying, we can come to it from a position of strength. Speaker 0 00:12:28 Mm. Yeah. I like that. The strengthen would you, would you say almost like skillfulness, like having some kind of like a skill set to meet it, would you go of that far to say that that's still skillset Speaker 2 00:12:47 Far and you know what, I, I'm not going to probably remember all of the details right now, but I did write an article for Buddhist door global on a training plan, which I think I'm also going to put this in sitting with death and, you know, so I can do the broad brush strokes of this training plan, which is first to understand and acknowledge impermanence, and then to begin to look around and contemplate and meditate on the fact that people around me are going to die and to include there's. Oh my gosh. I can't remember what they're called right now, who you might remember and be able to help me, but there's something that is consistently, uh, chanted in most Buddhist traditions. I am of the nature to grow old. I, I am of the nature to be ill. I am of the nature to die. Speaker 2 00:13:46 So this is an important thing to chant and meditate on. And then to continue online. And now in different traditions, there are different ways of meditating on death. There's meditating on the breakup of the body and of your own body. There is meditating. And so I apologize. Some people that are squeamish, this is going to bother you meditating on corpses and the decay and decomposition of the body. There is meditating in what, um, in India and other countries where cremations are more of the de facto way of, of handling our dead meditating in a Charnel ground in the West, you can go and sit in a cemetery and meditate, but so there's these different steps. You can take one by one, you know, I wouldn't say, just go do it all in one day. I think for many people that's too overwhelming. And the way we want to remember is that we don't need to do this by ourselves. So reach out to teacher, reach out to your song guy. You don't have to do this by yourself. Speaker 0 00:14:58 Yeah, it's so, so beautiful. And you know, I think about the meditation practice, even before we get to the concept of like human death, but the meditation practice of watching the breath come in and go, you know, this where we're noticing death, right? We're noticing things, arise, things abide and things go away. So just like this impermanent just impermanence, right? The things of shifting and changing. And I remember in the Gaelic tradition of Tibetan Buddhism, we started out with this impermanence training of this analytical meditation on has anything that you ever known stayed the same. And so we would contemplate your hometown, um, the school that you, you know, your childhood school, your teachers, your friends, your family, um, your shoes, your dog, your cat, I mean, anything is anything ever stayed the same and you kind of go micro to macro, think about countries, think about the Himalayas, think about the earth, you know, think about everything shifting and changing. And I think it's so interesting is that where we are built for this change, like everything changes every moment. And we're built for that. We've gone through trillions and trillions and trillions of these moments where everything has changed yet. We don't recognize it. We don't have that recognition of like, everything just changed. And, you know, you're bringing to light this such an important piece, which is just this, this basic recognition of the death of things, you know, including things that are very important. And dear to us, Speaker 2 00:16:53 You know, it's funny because there's, I think that as a species, we wouldn't be around still, if we weren't in so many ways, so adaptable and so flexible. And yet sometimes we just also as a species, we just kick and change, sorry, kick and scream against change. Right, right. Ooh, moved my desk, Speaker 2 00:17:19 You know, that coffee cup does it, you know, who moved at this? You know, then there's a whole book around it called who moved my cheese and the, in the business arena, which is all about dealing with change and we kick and scream. And yet we're here because somehow we were able to get over it and adapt. But yeah, but still, yes, I love that. And I appreciate that. You're bringing that approach to the discussion. Thank you so much. Yeah. Wonderful. And I actually really just appreciate kind of the, this aspect, you know, talking about Speaker 1 00:17:50 Preparation, you know, I, I feel like the, both of you are really speaking to almost like the spiritual preparation in a sense. And I always think about, you know, again, when I'm talking with my patients that, um, there are so many different types of preparation, right? There's like the mental preparation, there's emotional preparation, there's physical preparation, there's relational prep, you know, preparation, operational preparation, like all the different types of things that we need to, um, think about whether we're thinking about our own death or the death of somebody that we'd love. And, um, and I actually really appreciate this emphasis on the spiritual aspect, because I would say that's probably, you know, maybe the aspect that I don't necessarily directly address with my patients, but it is so, so critical. Speaker 2 00:18:41 Well, the idea of a peaceful death is very important, peaceful life, peaceful death. And the more that we can have a peaceful life, the more likely it is that we will have a peaceful death and there's things we can do for ourselves to have a peaceful life and a peaceful death. And there's things we can do for the people we love to help them have peace at the time of their passing. Uh, and you know, and to your point, though, there are some know, we're definitely, we're talking about spiritual things, but there are some practical things also, which helps. So I always say, I didn't realize how much maybe I'm going to say control, freak. I think my dear mother was a control freak, but you know what, I didn't realize how much until after she died. And then it was such a gift because she had written down everything she wanted, what a gift. Speaker 2 00:19:40 And she and my father together, my father just happened to pass first. They had a whole notebook as my dad cause he was a little OCD. So, um, he had like notebooks for stuff. So he like, they had this whole notebook and it was so helpful. And so there are, these are the practical ways that we can help people to deal with their death because I think there's so much anxiety around what to do and am I doing what they want? And you know, my little bomb there, she was, she was like, and I want Mary to bring her cheesecake to the week. Okay, mom. Okay. And I want, you know, somebody to order those croissant sandwiches from Sam's bakery. Okay. Mom. So there's so many ways we can prepare. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:20:28 And it strikes me that, you know, right. That is so, so helpful. Um, and also so much peace and knowing that we're respecting somebody's wishes about what they would want for themselves. Um, but also it strikes me that we have to get really comfortable around having these conversations with our loved ones about know, okay, what are your wishes? What is it that you want? You know, um, so that we can respect those. And, and so it, it, I think brings us back to sort of that fundamental pushing away, or maybe a version that, that many of us might feel around having some of these conversations with, with our loved ones. And, you know, what would you recommend to somebody who maybe is trying to initiate or have a conversation around, you know, death and dying with their loved ones? Cause those can be really difficult conversations to have Speaker 2 00:21:21 You are so right. I would say stick with it. If you think you have time. And I say that because we don't know, but some of us know somebody who has been diagnosed with a terminal illness may have a better gauge, although not necessarily, not necessarily, but, um, so as you're, as you feel time permits, you know, maybe you're leading somebody down a path. And so as much as here I am today with you happy to talk about death and preparing for death, that wasn't always true. And my parents were ready with all their stuff before I was ever ready to talk to them about it. And they were patient and they stuck with it. And when I went to visit them because I retired and moved to another state as they got older and they had all their stuff together, every time I would visit, they would broach the subject, Margaret here's where things are, there's a safe in our closet. Speaker 2 00:22:23 Here's how you get into it. There's a binder. It tells you the name of our attorney. It has all the information you need. And at first I was like, I couldn't even look when they were trying to say this to me. And they just kept with it. And every time I came, you know, and at first there'd be that, Oh my God, I know every time I come visit, there's going to be that 10, 15 minutes when mom and dad tried to pull me aside and talked to me about when they die. But thank goodness they stuck with it. And eventually the day came where I listened and I was, I understood and I knew they were right. And I knew that they were being helpful. And you know, they would say, we know it's going to be really hard for you. We know that we are all very close and this is going to be difficult for you. And we want to try to make this as easy for you as possible. And so they just patiently stuck with it. And even when I would turn my head and just grit my tooth until they would stop talking, they kept talking. And then one day I was ready to, to participate in the discussion. Speaker 3 00:23:33 That's such a great story because it feels like it's, um, it feels like it's manageable for us. You know, you see the progression of that. And I that's how a lot of, Speaker 0 00:23:46 A lot of us approach it. I remember listening to a talk with Pema Chodron and it was, I think it was her 80th birthday. And she was talking about being introduced to Buddhism in her twenties and they were talking about death. Then she was like, what are you guys doing? Like, I don't want to think about it. I'm young. And, and uh, yeah, it's just a, it's such a scary topic for her. She was thinking, and she's like, here I am, I'm 80. And you know, I have like 10 years left or something. She's like probably something like that. And, and I'm so fortunate to have prepared all this time for this, because now I'm at ease and I've put in the work and it was slow. It was not quick and easy, but I have so much ease around the whole topic now. And I'm so grateful. Speaker 2 00:24:48 Yeah. And I think be patient, we need to be patient with ourselves and with the people around us, because we get to these different places of readiness and preparation on our own schedules on our own schedules. I'm sure in my parents' perfect scenario, the first time they broached the subject, I would have been with them and fully engaged. You know, that's not how it was. And so yeah, we want to be patient and we want to know that we enter into the situation and whatever shape we are in at that time. So hopefully we get to be like Tema and look and go, you know? Hm I'm ready now. And maybe we don't and that's okay. And so we also want to be compassionate with ourselves and so that when we face death and we're like, Oh man, I didn't really get ready. Just be compassionate and patient with yourself because you know, here I go again, this is how it is. This is the shape that you're in. And so deal with it accordingly because again, you know, pain plus resistance is suffering. And if you beat yourself up for not getting more ready, you're not helping yourself. Speaker 0 00:26:09 Yeah. So we, we have, um, what we mentioned at the beginning here, you have carpooling with death, a wonderful, wonderful book that I think came out a couple of years ago. Was it? Um, yeah, 2018 ish, 2019 ish. Yeah. It's gonna be three years. Yeah. And, um, and then do you want to speak about your upcoming project in detail? Um, sitting with death, Speaker 2 00:26:35 I would love to thank you. So sit sitting with death is the result of reaching out to Buddhist, spiritual teachers like Casey and asking questions. Like when did you first feel like you learned about death in your life and how did it hit you and how would you describe grief and what recommendations would you give and what has helped you and are there different teachings that you've found to be useful? And I was very fortunate that I was able to talk to people from all kinds of different traditions and backgrounds and that people were so giving of their time. And now that it's turning into the book, which will come out in September and it will cover some of the main themes that have come from the discussions because, you know, and I didn't know what to expect going into it. You know, I, I didn't know if like I was going to talk to all of these advanced people and they're gonna go, Oh, it's easy. Bye. Speaker 2 00:27:42 Yeah, no problem. Just keep sitting. Yes. Do keep. And by the way, yes, do keep sitting. But also there's more and it, and so people were such great advice and honest about their experiences. And so I think in many ways it's very reassuring and, and very helpful. And the other good news was that I was able to record these discussions. And so if you want to start, anyone wants to start getting, like, I'll say a preview, then you can listen to the deaf DAMA podcast and you can start listening to these discussions with these great wise people. Speaker 0 00:28:20 Oh, so wonderful. Yeah. That's what I was going to mention next. Um, the podcasts, there's a really wonderful, um, and so with, with the podcast, um, you're having those interviews and then are you having different discussions with, with more people as well? Speaker 2 00:28:38 I'm going to, so the first, I don't know if it'll be like the first season, I guess we can call it. The first season is my, my 12 wise teachers. And I I've taken an approach, which is the interview discussion with the teacher. And then a few days later there's kind of a recap and it's me sharing my aha moments or discussions with the interview. So I, I call those death DAMA ahas, because I liked, I like the silly alliteration and yeah. But, uh, so that's the form that, that takes, and then I'm gathering ideas for the next season. I think there's a lot to be explored here. So I would, I would like to continue it and I have booked and started discussing having discussions with people who will be in the next series of the podcast, but not necessarily in the book. That's how it's going. So the work continues. I'm happy to say. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:29:36 Oh, it's so it's so valuable. Yeah. I would love to ask, um, just a quick question Speaker 1 00:29:42 About your first book carpooling with death. Um, I I'm so struck by that title and in particular, the word carpooling, um, I don't know if you can share a little bit about the title in particular or maybe even that word carpooling and how that ties into the book itself. Speaker 2 00:30:00 I can, it's a little silly, well, one day I was driving to do some teaching and I was going up the freeway and it was not a good driving day. As we know, happens in Southern California. And I was realizing that I was going to be late and I had this silly thought, which was, it goes like this, you know, I can get in the carpool lane. I can give him the carpool lane because death is in the car with me. And I think that thought occurred to me because this was around the time I shared with you earlier about how I got to this point in my life, where I realized like, Hey, Margaret, people are going to start dying. This is how it's going to be. Like, your people are going to die. Are you ready? So I had in this mind that like the grim Reaper was kind of following me around. Speaker 2 00:30:49 And so I just envisioned, like I could get in the carpool lane because the grim Reaper is here in the car with me. And then of course I immediately pictured the call of the highway patrol, pulling me over and then saying like, Hey, you know, we have a different form of something going on out here. Cause this woman says that death is carpooling with her and that she's not alone. There are actually two entities in the car. You can't see her buddy. And so that's really where it came from, was this idea of we're all really carpooling with death. Death is always with us. Speaker 0 00:31:25 Yeah. And this is an offshoot, but everyone, all the listeners, you have to go check out the cover. It's so well done. I love the cover. And I don't know, there's so much into it. I, for, for me to cover, um, it has this feel it's, uh, it has this lightness to it. Um, I mean maybe just do the graphic design of it. Um, almost comic book ish or something like that, for me, where it brings us lightness. Because when you enter into this topic, of course we have this, this aversion. So I think that the title along with, um, the actual look and feel of the book has really inviting us in to take a look in a, in a way that's, you know, not so serious. I mean, like you mentioned, it's about, Hey, this is a reality. And when we get into the topic, it's, it's almost extremely odd that we never talk about it. It's, it's almost a very odd thing that something that's. So you know, that it's so apparent happening in every way, every day to all things, um, yeah, that, that we don't talk about it. So it's as good that you bring some lightness. Speaker 2 00:32:43 Thank you. And that's what I wanted. Cause I thought I don't want to scare people away. I mean, obviously some people are never going to be ready for this book or it's not going to be the right book for them, same thing with sitting with death. But I wanted to invite people in to this safer space. And so with sitting with death, the cover hasn't been designed yet, but I'm looking for the same kind of thing. So hopefully we can expect to maybe see the grim Reaper, you know, meditating or something like that. That's as good as what I'm in visiting. Um, so we'll see. And then the other part of me using the grim Reaper as a character is informed from there's an author, Terry Pratchett and Terry Pratchett has passed, but Terry Pratchett has written a lot of different books. And I guess his John rhe would be fantasy. And in his books, death is a character. And when you're reading the book, you always know death is there because the sentences will be in capital letters. And, and so it'll be like, he's come to bring somebody, but he's not scary or ominous. There's a whole book dedicated to when he needs a vacation and he takes a vacation. He's just, this is just his job. He's doing his job, you know, and helping me get in the carpool lane. That's what he's doing. Speaker 0 00:34:09 Um, yeah. So thank you so much, uh, for all of your, all of your wisdom, how could, how could people keep in contact with you? What's the best ways for them to get in touch with you or follow you on your social platforms? Speaker 2 00:34:26 I think the best way to find me is if you come to my website, which is Margaret maloney.com and it's M E L O N I, because it's not the Maloney people think, and if you can find me on Margaret baloney.com, you can find the podcast, you can find the books, you can find my blog, you know, you can sign up to hear more things from me. So I think that would be the best way for people to find me. And I will look forward to seeing everyone. And I hope that what the messages that I bring are, are useful. I appreciate the time and energy given to the topic. Thank you. Thank you Speaker 0 00:35:04 So much for sharing all of your, your time and wisdom and experience with us where we're very, very grateful. Absolutely. Um, do you have a social channel that you like more than others on Instagram, Facebook, or, Speaker 2 00:35:20 Yeah, I'm kind of in between there. Let's see. Um, I am on Twitter, Margaret Maloney. Cool. And I have started using that Twitter for the deaf Dabo podcasts. So that's wonderful one place and I have started a death DAMA podcast, Facebook page. Good. Speaker 3 00:35:38 So those are the ones that can help. Yep. Yep. Thanks. I'm the, you know, I think I've told you this before. I'm like the last person on the planet. Who's not on Instagram, so yeah. I'm that person who's not on Instagram. It's me. Yeah. It'd be as long as you can stay that person. It's a good thing. It's a challenging place. It can be. Yeah. I know. It's the weirdest place, our energy and social media. Right, right. It's it's effort with all this information like podcasts and everything. It's like a, these platforms. I'm sure everyone thinks about this. It does plateau. These platforms are wonderful and great way to connect. And then, um, there's a lot of silliness and things that are just a time suck. And you just like, w w where is that last five minutes of my life? Or like more like five hours. Right. Um, well, thanks again. And, and yeah, we usually end with a short meditation, so yeah. We're going to go ahead and do that. And then you could join us and all the little, all of the listeners out there, if you can, can join us if you're in a safe place to do so. Speaker 3 00:36:55 Go ahead and find a nice meditative posture. And of course, we spoke a lot today about change, about impermanence, about death. And like we mentioned, this can be very heavy, but also you could start with just the living and dying of things in this very moment, it's become acclimated to change. And we do this by simply observing, being mindful. So noticing things in this moment that are shifting and changing can be sensations in the body. Feeling tones sounds, even the colors behind your eyelids, notice everything is arising, Speaker 4 00:38:49 Abiding, Speaker 3 00:38:53 And then falling away. And as you notice this, you can also notice your ness. Speaker 4 00:39:21 You were built for this notice change, be with change and Speaker 3 00:39:48 Change yourself. Speaker 4 00:39:53 It's all happening. Speaker 3 00:40:00 And it's all okay, Nancy. And if you could find a little bit of peace in this, Speaker 4 00:40:33 This noticing Speaker 3 00:40:43 And observing the change and observing the okay ness would change. And if you cannot experience this, at least creating the intention, the sincere wish To be at ease, with change at some point, and wishing this for others too, may others be at ease with this natural occurrence of change and impermanence, and so may myself and all beings everywhere without exception, Speaker 4 00:42:17 Maybe all be happy Speaker 3 00:42:22 And free from suffering.

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